"So, What does your DAR say about Airworthiness" - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-28T21:01:05Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/so-what-does-your-dar-say-about-airworthiness?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A617049&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI would pay $1000 to have tha…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6170492018-03-01T20:55:49.089ZJohn M Greinerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnMGreiner
<p>I would pay $1000 to have that kind of DAR.</p>
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<p>If you get your Airworthiness without a hassle and ametuers did 51% of the build, that's what I believe is right.</p>
<p>He also stated it the way I understand it, they aren't there to say its safe to fly, you could of built it out of who knows what and didn't use any standard materials. In our case we bought a kit, that if you decide to follow Zeniths recommendations there is some guarantee it will have certain flight…</p>
<p>I would pay $1000 to have that kind of DAR.</p>
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<p>If you get your Airworthiness without a hassle and ametuers did 51% of the build, that's what I believe is right.</p>
<p>He also stated it the way I understand it, they aren't there to say its safe to fly, you could of built it out of who knows what and didn't use any standard materials. In our case we bought a kit, that if you decide to follow Zeniths recommendations there is some guarantee it will have certain flight chatacteristics, used approved materials, in a proven airframe. 2 DARs I talked I think get confused thinking since I bought a kit the EAB rules don't apply. Zenith is not liable even if you build it perfectly to their recommendations. The FAA is not liable even if you do or you don't follow Zenith's recommendations and guidelines. You should be able to do all the mods you want, its EAB. But if you deviate from Zeniths recommendations you are adding a level of risk only because those mods may not of been proven by Zenith or other builders/flyers, but its not grounds to not get your Airworthiness under EAB of the special Airworthiness category for educational and recreational purpose that we nearly all build under. Using a certain rated bolt is a safer bet, its not required, you can us a bolt from Ace hardware, but I wouldn't recommend it. All opinions based on my reading the regs.</p>
<p>When I called Zenith asking about mods, they said go ahead its not their business what I do with my EAB build. They will answer questions on how Zenith would build one, because they stick with their proven design. They just sold me a bunch of predrilled aluminum and parts, that when assembled per plans, will fly and look a lot their factory planes. But building per plans is optional. Guys this is not canan, it's one crazy guys opinion. </p>
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<p>Chime in or Like if this is your understanding...</p>
<p>Or make corrections.</p>
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<p>John</p>
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<p></p> Ouch!!
My guy was "only" $50…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6165362018-03-01T16:05:39.923ZPaul Sandershttps://zenith.aero/profile/ukpylot
<p>Ouch!!</p>
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<p>My guy was "only" $500 and I figured that for driving 2 hrs each way, spending 90 minutes out in the 90%+ humidity (I think the "feels like" temp was 95F), that was money well earned.</p>
<p>Ouch!!</p>
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<p>My guy was "only" $500 and I figured that for driving 2 hrs each way, spending 90 minutes out in the 90%+ humidity (I think the "feels like" temp was 95F), that was money well earned.</p> Wow - that's a real eye-opene…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6167212018-03-01T16:01:43.028ZJohn Austinhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnLAustin
<p>Wow - that's a real eye-opener about some of those fees!</p>
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<p>I didn't even entertain the idea using my local FAA FSDO rather than a DAR! The first time I called the FSDO during the build of my STOL 750, the FAA bureaucrat on the other end of the line said, "You know there's an AD out on that plane, don't you?" Of course, I knew 2 things: (1) There is no such thing as an AD on an experimental airplane, and (2) There certainly wasn't an "AD" on the STOL 750! (I think he was…</p>
<p>Wow - that's a real eye-opener about some of those fees!</p>
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<p>I didn't even entertain the idea using my local FAA FSDO rather than a DAR! The first time I called the FSDO during the build of my STOL 750, the FAA bureaucrat on the other end of the line said, "You know there's an AD out on that plane, don't you?" Of course, I knew 2 things: (1) There is no such thing as an AD on an experimental airplane, and (2) There certainly wasn't an "AD" on the STOL 750! (I think he was thinking of the 601 Special Airworthiness Information Bulletin). He then said, "Yeah, you'll have to completely rebuild that wing!" At that point I immediately decided two things: (1) Just agree with him to get him off the phone - you can't argue with the FAA! - and, (2) find a DAR that was knowledgeable about EAB!</p>
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<p>At the time of my build 6 years ago, the DAR charged about $350 and that included 2 hours of travel one-way. He did a thorough inspection and all the paperwork, so I felt it was a bargain! :>)</p>
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<p>For even more laughs from your friendly FAA, see this: <a href="http://www.zenith.aero/profiles/blogs/2606393:BlogPost:315867" target="_blank" rel="noopener">"A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the FSDO!"</a> ;>)</p>
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<p>John</p> My DAR was from the SF Bay ar…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6165312018-03-01T14:57:33.668ZGary Welchhttps://zenith.aero/profile/GaryWelch
<p>My DAR was from the SF Bay area and admitted knowing little about experimental aircraft. Apparently he had spent a career setting standards or inspecting large commercial aircraft. </p>
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<p>The DAR was not from Oakland FSDO. I asked but they said I would be waiting for a very long time if they wanted someone from there to do an inspection. They didn't even have a waiting list.</p>
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<p>The DAR literally spent no more than 10 minutes looking at my plane - and came up with one…</p>
<p>My DAR was from the SF Bay area and admitted knowing little about experimental aircraft. Apparently he had spent a career setting standards or inspecting large commercial aircraft. </p>
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<p>The DAR was not from Oakland FSDO. I asked but they said I would be waiting for a very long time if they wanted someone from there to do an inspection. They didn't even have a waiting list.</p>
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<p>The DAR literally spent no more than 10 minutes looking at my plane - and came up with one comment (label on canopy latch). He did spend some time looking at my documentation but asked few questions. He repeated more than once that " I was responsible fro the airworthiness of the aircraft."</p>
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<p>Less than an hour after arriving I had my AWC - and he walked away with $800 of my CASH.</p>
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<p>I didn't know whether to feel happy I got my cert. with no problems, or pissed I just payed someone $800 for one hour to sign a few pieces of paper.</p>
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<p>In fairness, he did have an 1-1/2 hour drive to get to me...</p> That's too bad. In the Cinci…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6167012018-03-01T12:29:21.436ZDavid Gallagherhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DavidGallagher
<p>That's too bad. In the Cincinnati area we have a very supportive FSDO staff. Not only do they promptly come out to inspect amateur built aircraft, they regularly accept invitations from our EAA chapters to talk to us at chapter meetings.</p>
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<p>Dave</p>
<p>That's too bad. In the Cincinnati area we have a very supportive FSDO staff. Not only do they promptly come out to inspect amateur built aircraft, they regularly accept invitations from our EAA chapters to talk to us at chapter meetings.</p>
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<p>Dave</p> We have a FSDO here that refu…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6166202018-03-01T03:36:54.290ZPaul Bonaserahttps://zenith.aero/profile/PaulBonasera
<p>We have a FSDO here that refuses to do the inspections. So we HAVE to use a DAR. Guess they just can't put down the coffee cup long enough to come inspect a plane and fill out papers.</p>
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<p>We have a FSDO here that refuses to do the inspections. So we HAVE to use a DAR. Guess they just can't put down the coffee cup long enough to come inspect a plane and fill out papers.</p>
<p></p> I just called the nearest FSD…tag:zenith.aero,2018-03-01:2606393:Comment:6165162018-03-01T02:43:39.869ZDavid Orrhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DAVIDORR
<p>I just called the nearest FSDO and got on the waiting list, a month later two FAA inspectors showed up and went over my plane with a fine tooth comb. I had all the paperwork ready with everything laid out on the bench. I used the EAA experimental paper work kit and followed it to the letter. The guys from the FAA were great and really enjoyed inspecting my aircraft, they even commented that they don’t get called often to do experimental inspections. Cost was zero, can’t beat that. I…</p>
<p>I just called the nearest FSDO and got on the waiting list, a month later two FAA inspectors showed up and went over my plane with a fine tooth comb. I had all the paperwork ready with everything laid out on the bench. I used the EAA experimental paper work kit and followed it to the letter. The guys from the FAA were great and really enjoyed inspecting my aircraft, they even commented that they don’t get called often to do experimental inspections. Cost was zero, can’t beat that. I figured after 10 years of building I could wait a month for the inspection. Oh, and all they asked me to do was add two ty-raps. Overall it was a great experience. </p> I used Brian Carpenter, owner…tag:zenith.aero,2018-02-28:2606393:Comment:6165752018-02-28T02:21:15.672ZStan Cooperhttps://zenith.aero/profile/StanCooper
<p>I used Brian Carpenter, owner (with his wife Carol) of Rainbow Aviation Services in Corning, CA. Brian and Carol regularly write articles for <em>EAA Sport Aviation</em>, and are both very knowledgeable (Brian is also an A&P with inspection authorization). They were great to work with.</p>
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<p>I used Brian Carpenter, owner (with his wife Carol) of Rainbow Aviation Services in Corning, CA. Brian and Carol regularly write articles for <em>EAA Sport Aviation</em>, and are both very knowledgeable (Brian is also an A&P with inspection authorization). They were great to work with.</p>
<p></p> Thanks everyone. This is grea…tag:zenith.aero,2018-02-27:2606393:Comment:6165672018-02-27T23:59:00.229ZJohn M Greinerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnMGreiner
<p>Thanks everyone. This is great info for our fellow builders for sure. Keep it coming!</p>
<p>Thanks everyone. This is great info for our fellow builders for sure. Keep it coming!</p> Excellent and thanks! I will…tag:zenith.aero,2018-02-27:2606393:Comment:6165592018-02-27T23:26:49.316ZJim and Amelia Isaacshttps://zenith.aero/profile/JimIsaacs
<p>Excellent and thanks! I will plan to use Gary as well. </p>
<p>Excellent and thanks! I will plan to use Gary as well. </p>