Riveting - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T14:45:49Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/riveting?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A688412&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWe are splitting hairs now an…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-22:2606393:Comment:6889022019-08-22T12:29:04.737ZDan Hillhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanHill
<p>We are splitting hairs now and I am not going down this path, but I will say that we are now into conjecture. If we look at the Zenith construction standards they show 1/8" AN rivets to have a nominal shear of 160 kg or 352 pounds, when I compare them to the AVEX rivet data sheet it shows 1/8" to have an ultimate shear of 155 pounds. Dan.</p>
<p>We are splitting hairs now and I am not going down this path, but I will say that we are now into conjecture. If we look at the Zenith construction standards they show 1/8" AN rivets to have a nominal shear of 160 kg or 352 pounds, when I compare them to the AVEX rivet data sheet it shows 1/8" to have an ultimate shear of 155 pounds. Dan.</p> At least in theory, the avex…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-22:2606393:Comment:6888202019-08-22T09:35:55.997ZBob Joneshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobJones
<p>At least in theory, the avex are stronger then a solid rivet in that they have a steel core .</p>
<p>At least in theory, the avex are stronger then a solid rivet in that they have a steel core .</p> The 601HD I bought was comple…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-21:2606393:Comment:6890752019-08-21T16:57:02.932ZIan Robbhttps://zenith.aero/profile/IanRobb
<p>The 601HD I bought was completely assembled with a hand riveter. They gave me a fairly new riveter with the plane, since they wore out the first one.</p>
<p>The 601HD I bought was completely assembled with a hand riveter. They gave me a fairly new riveter with the plane, since they wore out the first one.</p> I have two...one for A4 and t…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-21:2606393:Comment:6889692019-08-21T03:28:44.508ZKenneth Stapletonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/KennethStapleton
<p>I have two...one for A4 and the other for A5...saves a lot of time.</p>
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<p>Ken</p>
<p>I have two...one for A4 and the other for A5...saves a lot of time.</p>
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<p>Ken</p> I understand what you are say…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-21:2606393:Comment:6889682019-08-21T02:47:34.358ZGeorge Burnshttps://zenith.aero/profile/GEORGEWBURNS
<p>I understand what you are saying. I would like to see this test done with the A4 and A5 Zenith rivets which are only rated to 110# and 180# shear respectively. I probably will either get someone to do it or do it myself before I decide if I want to do it. Like to see the test with both flush and domed versions. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVYtx5dvUA" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVYtx5dvUA</a></p>
<p>I understand what you are saying. I would like to see this test done with the A4 and A5 Zenith rivets which are only rated to 110# and 180# shear respectively. I probably will either get someone to do it or do it myself before I decide if I want to do it. Like to see the test with both flush and domed versions. </p>
<p><a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVYtx5dvUA" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MAVYtx5dvUA</a></p> You are asking beyond my scop…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-21:2606393:Comment:6888642019-08-21T00:41:18.859ZDan Hillhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanHill
<p>You are asking beyond my scope of knowledge. As I understand it (and I may be wrong) is that it was originally designed with the heads reformed which gave them more "holding power"? Than they originally had when installed in there original countersunk configuration. Avex rivets are not considered to be a structural rivet like a cherry rivet would be, but when reformed give sufficient strength for our application at a much lower cost and easier instillation than a comparable rivet. I…</p>
<p>You are asking beyond my scope of knowledge. As I understand it (and I may be wrong) is that it was originally designed with the heads reformed which gave them more "holding power"? Than they originally had when installed in there original countersunk configuration. Avex rivets are not considered to be a structural rivet like a cherry rivet would be, but when reformed give sufficient strength for our application at a much lower cost and easier instillation than a comparable rivet. I personally would not be comfortable using them in a countersunk application. Bear in mind this is my understanding and I could be wrong. Thanks, Dan.</p> Dan Hill writes - "When the A…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-21:2606393:Comment:6888612019-08-21T00:26:09.802ZGeorge Burnshttps://zenith.aero/profile/GEORGEWBURNS
<p><span>Dan Hill writes - "When the Avex rivets are pulled and forms the dome they are ment to form a tighter seal around the outer diameter and will give more holding power than the rivet provides if they are in there standard countersunk form."</span></p>
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<p>Unless you dimple and/or countersink your skins and substrates like I'm planning on doing? What do you think about that? Love your videos, BTW!</p>
<p><span>Dan Hill writes - "When the Avex rivets are pulled and forms the dome they are ment to form a tighter seal around the outer diameter and will give more holding power than the rivet provides if they are in there standard countersunk form."</span></p>
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<p>Unless you dimple and/or countersink your skins and substrates like I'm planning on doing? What do you think about that? Love your videos, BTW!</p> There are several thousand ri…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-19:2606393:Comment:6884302019-08-19T21:31:16.483ZScott Smithhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ScottSmith
<p>There are several thousand rivets to pull in your kit. I can't even try to imagine pulling them all with a hand rivet gun.</p>
<p>There are several thousand rivets to pull in your kit. I can't even try to imagine pulling them all with a hand rivet gun.</p> Hi Robert,
You can easily ma…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-19:2606393:Comment:6886262019-08-19T19:56:08.090ZPerry Delanohttps://zenith.aero/profile/perrydelano
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
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<p>You can easily make the special heads yourself with a propane torch, a large 135 degree drill bit and some emery cloth. They are cheap enough just to buy from Zenith, but they are a bit of a confidence builder to make your own. Just be sure you are satisfied with some practice rivets before embarking on a lot of them on your plane. Hand riveter is fine for a few A4's or a couple of A5's in a tough spot, but you will get to appreciate an air rivet gun when sinking a…</p>
<p>Hi Robert,</p>
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<p>You can easily make the special heads yourself with a propane torch, a large 135 degree drill bit and some emery cloth. They are cheap enough just to buy from Zenith, but they are a bit of a confidence builder to make your own. Just be sure you are satisfied with some practice rivets before embarking on a lot of them on your plane. Hand riveter is fine for a few A4's or a couple of A5's in a tough spot, but you will get to appreciate an air rivet gun when sinking a hundred or so A4 and anything over 5 A5's. I have two Stanley hand riveters, one with modified heads, one with standard, and an air riveter with modified heads for my 701. Also made modified heads for some of the rivet guns we used on RAA Chapter 85 750 Cruzer. If you are building a 750, you will need to do one for 3/16 A6 rivets in the wings as well, but there are only a few of the latter.</p>
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<p>For blooper rivet removal, cannot say enough about starrett automatic punch to drive back mandrels and protect the holes you have drilled. Works especially well for A5 and A6.</p> When the Avex rivets are pull…tag:zenith.aero,2019-08-19:2606393:Comment:6886192019-08-19T18:34:01.819ZDan Hillhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanHill
<p>When the Avex rivets are pulled and forms the dome they are ment to form a tighter seal around the outer diameter and will give more holding power than the rivet provides if they are in there standard countersunk form. while there are other domed rivets available they are either more complicated to install such as buck rivets where there is more of a learning curve and in some instances would take 2 people or they are more expensive.</p>
<p>When the Avex rivets are pulled and forms the dome they are ment to form a tighter seal around the outer diameter and will give more holding power than the rivet provides if they are in there standard countersunk form. while there are other domed rivets available they are either more complicated to install such as buck rivets where there is more of a learning curve and in some instances would take 2 people or they are more expensive.</p>