Fuel pumping and storage equipment - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T11:28:02Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/fuel-pumping-and-storage-equipment?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A394332&feed=yes&xn_auth=noAnd every year a few folks ki…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-13:2606393:Comment:3999842014-12-13T00:56:09.748ZBob Pustellhttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobPustell
<p>And every year a few folks kill or maim themselves refueling a car with a lit cigarette dangling in their mouth or in their fingers. You would think that one would be so obvious, don't do it, but they do.</p>
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<p>I was young and immortal (and stupid) way back when. OSHA did not exist yet, it was the sixties, and I worked as an auto mechanic. We cleaned parts in a five gallon pail of gasolene and we did it while smoking. Hey, it won't happen to me! I was lucky, it didn't. I got smarter…</p>
<p>And every year a few folks kill or maim themselves refueling a car with a lit cigarette dangling in their mouth or in their fingers. You would think that one would be so obvious, don't do it, but they do.</p>
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<p>I was young and immortal (and stupid) way back when. OSHA did not exist yet, it was the sixties, and I worked as an auto mechanic. We cleaned parts in a five gallon pail of gasolene and we did it while smoking. Hey, it won't happen to me! I was lucky, it didn't. I got smarter and quit smoking in the early 70's. EPA didn't exist yet, either - when the gasolene got dirty we poured it out into the ground and put fresh fuel in from the pumps out front. I feel so guilty about that now, but we didn't know the harm it did - we were taught the ground could absorb anything and make it go away.</p> I agree John but they do happ…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3994732014-12-10T19:28:16.919ZDaniel C Hallhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanielCHall
<p>I agree John but they do happen though. You would think that with 55,000 vehicle deaths per year on US highways that the newspapers would have nothing but stories of car wrecks. Alas, it's not news. There are fueling incidents, they aren't news though. Cell phones (used to) have been known to cause vehicle fueling incidents too. I think they have that one ironed out now. Before hoses with grounding wires inside were mandated, fueling fires were commonplace. </p>
<p>I agree John but they do happen though. You would think that with 55,000 vehicle deaths per year on US highways that the newspapers would have nothing but stories of car wrecks. Alas, it's not news. There are fueling incidents, they aren't news though. Cell phones (used to) have been known to cause vehicle fueling incidents too. I think they have that one ironed out now. Before hoses with grounding wires inside were mandated, fueling fires were commonplace. </p> Just found the answer to my o…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3994712014-12-10T19:01:53.623ZJohn Austinhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnLAustin
<p>Just found the answer to my own question! According to Emory University:</p>
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<blockquote><p align="left"><em>Have you noticed the warning signs printed on gas pumps about the</em></p>
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<p align="left"><em>dangers of static electricity while refueling your car? These warnings are</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>not a gimmick. “About 100 static-sparked fires occur at gas stations each</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>year, according to Fowler Associates, a S.C.-based…</em></p>
<p>Just found the answer to my own question! According to Emory University:</p>
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<blockquote><p align="left"><em>Have you noticed the warning signs printed on gas pumps about the</em></p>
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<p align="left"><em>dangers of static electricity while refueling your car? These warnings are</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>not a gimmick. “About 100 static-sparked fires occur at gas stations each</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>year, according to Fowler Associates, a S.C.-based electrostatic research</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>and consulting firm.” In March 2010, a Harrisburg, PA man died when</em></p>
<p align="left"><em>static electricity ignited gasoline vapors causing him to catch on fire as he</em></p>
<p><em>filled his gas tank.</em></p>
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<p>That's nearly 1 every three days! Doesn't seem to make the news often, though!</p>
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<p>John</p>
<p></p> All of this is good advice, b…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3995722014-12-10T18:56:46.706ZJohn Austinhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnLAustin
<p>All of this is good advice, but I wonder what the incidence is of sparks and fires during fueling either in autos or planes? Seems like with the gazillion number of times per day that people refuel their cars, we would be reading about cars burning up at the pump most every day! Seems like there have been more battery fires in electric cars! ;>)</p>
<p>John</p>
<p>All of this is good advice, but I wonder what the incidence is of sparks and fires during fueling either in autos or planes? Seems like with the gazillion number of times per day that people refuel their cars, we would be reading about cars burning up at the pump most every day! Seems like there have been more battery fires in electric cars! ;>)</p>
<p>John</p> That's a new one on me. It d…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3994682014-12-10T18:49:19.273ZDaniel C Hallhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanielCHall
<p>That's a new one on me. It does give me the willies when pouring from a plastic jug into the wing tank though, so I first set the jug on the wing while I take the filler cap off. That should even things out. Fill the plastic jug from the pump only with the jug sitting on the ground. NEVER NEVER while sitting in the bed of the pickup. </p>
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<p>If you examine the logic involved here you'll see what needs to be done. With a fuel trailer I would definitely have a ground wire between…</p>
<p>That's a new one on me. It does give me the willies when pouring from a plastic jug into the wing tank though, so I first set the jug on the wing while I take the filler cap off. That should even things out. Fill the plastic jug from the pump only with the jug sitting on the ground. NEVER NEVER while sitting in the bed of the pickup. </p>
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<p>If you examine the logic involved here you'll see what needs to be done. With a fuel trailer I would definitely have a ground wire between the tank and the pump base. It's odd when you think of it but we routinely pull up to the pump at the gas station with our cars and pickups and open the cap then stuff the filler hose in the hole. There is potential there for a spark; especially in dry winter conditions. Instead, grab the hose, touch the car with your hand while taking the cap off, then pump. Don't let the filler neck be the first contact between the car and the gas. One in a million I know, but like the Lottery, somebody has to win. </p> Thanks for the info. Trailers…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3990382014-12-10T02:59:31.534ZWayne Tysonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/WayneTyson482
<p>Thanks for the info. Trailers used for race cars sometimes have a gas tank attached to the tongue/frame. I'm thinking of designing an aircraft trailer along those lines.</p>
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<p>W</p>
<p>Thanks for the info. Trailers used for race cars sometimes have a gas tank attached to the tongue/frame. I'm thinking of designing an aircraft trailer along those lines.</p>
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<p>W</p> Not boored, I hope, but I've…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-10:2606393:Comment:3989172014-12-10T02:57:23.650ZWayne Tysonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/WayneTyson482
<p>Not boored, I hope, but I've heard that a plastic can needs to have a copper rod connected to ground in it, whether pumping from it or pouring from it. Is this true?</p>
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<p>W</p>
<p>Not boored, I hope, but I've heard that a plastic can needs to have a copper rod connected to ground in it, whether pumping from it or pouring from it. Is this true?</p>
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<p>W</p> Wayne asked: How do you grou…tag:zenith.aero,2014-12-08:2606393:Comment:3985242014-12-08T05:19:27.169ZDaniel C Hallhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DanielCHall
<p>Wayne asked: <span>How do you ground your cans? Are they plastic or metal?</span></p>
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<p><span>Alyeska Pipeline Service Company (The Alaska pipeline people) used to actually pay me to boor construction workers for hours on this very topic. What fun! </span></p>
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<p><span>What we're talking about here is a static charge that is caused by the motion of one material past another. When any two dissimilar materials (even air and a section of pipeline suspended from a crane)…</span></p>
<p>Wayne asked: <span>How do you ground your cans? Are they plastic or metal?</span></p>
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<p><span>Alyeska Pipeline Service Company (The Alaska pipeline people) used to actually pay me to boor construction workers for hours on this very topic. What fun! </span></p>
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<p><span>What we're talking about here is a static charge that is caused by the motion of one material past another. When any two dissimilar materials (even air and a section of pipeline suspended from a crane) are in relative motion one material will strip electrons off the other. During this process of electron exchange many electrons become "orphaned". That is, they are not attached to any molecule and race around in he material looking for someplace to either re-bond or find their way back to earth where they are "home". Oddly enough, the material that these "orphaned" electrons build up in doesn't need to be a conductor. They will move around from one molecule to another looking for an open bond. If you place the plastic gas can on the ground, concrete, dirt, a steel platform attached by way of framing, whatever, these electrons will flow very quickly to ground and be </span>dissipated. So as a petroleum product flows down a pipeline or hose, it will develop a charge. The pipeline is grounded and so is the hose at the gas pump, (by way of a spiral wire woven through it's length). The orphans are drained off as the fuel flows. When you slide your butt across the seat getting out of the pickup you often become charged. I always touch the gas pump cabinet before I grab the nozzle. This gets me and the gas at the same potential. The pickup has a charge as well just from moving through the air at a high rate of speed. Fortunately, the orphaned electrons can make their way through even the rubber tires back to earth pretty quickly. When the nozzle comes in contact with the filler neck there CAN be potential there but not much and the LEL is not right to cause an explosion. Sometimes, back in the olden days anyway, folks would have a length of chain dangling from the vehicle frame to the ground. The sparks you saw though were mostly about steel being ground off on the pavement. Not an electrical charge. </p>
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<p>I hope you're all still awake. In the industry we ALWAYS use a ground wire. This will bring the airplane and the fuel to the same potential. I have no idea why we no longer do that with automobiles. We probably should. </p> I have been gathering info to…tag:zenith.aero,2014-11-26:2606393:Comment:3956402014-11-26T22:55:59.216ZBob Pustellhttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobPustell
<p>I have been gathering info to build a fuel trailer for a while. I got lucky and bought a lightly used one from a neighbor who was moving to another airpark. The new location has fuel at the airport (not true where I live and fly) so the trailer did not move to the new location. I got it, lucky me.</p>
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<p>However, from my files, this is the most likely candidate, in my opinion. It is well thought out and also is street legal in every state, as far as I can tell. If you get over a…</p>
<p>I have been gathering info to build a fuel trailer for a while. I got lucky and bought a lightly used one from a neighbor who was moving to another airpark. The new location has fuel at the airport (not true where I live and fly) so the trailer did not move to the new location. I got it, lucky me.</p>
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<p>However, from my files, this is the most likely candidate, in my opinion. It is well thought out and also is street legal in every state, as far as I can tell. If you get over a certain size (around 110 gallons, by memory) you need DOT Hazmat training and all sorts of stuff to haul the gasolene. Also, the tank must be approved for use with gasoline, most of the tanks you see are only approved for use with diesel. Check this out.... <a href="http://www.flyunleaded.com/FuelTrailer.pdf" target="_blank">http://www.flyunleaded.com/FuelTrailer.pdf</a></p> A guy I know got his Maule ma…tag:zenith.aero,2014-11-24:2606393:Comment:3952602014-11-24T06:10:10.625ZWayne Tyson Jrhttps://zenith.aero/profile/WayneTysonJr
<p>A guy I know got his Maule mauled by a hangar fire. "Just" a wingtip; it was in the adjacent hangar.…</p>
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<p>A guy I know got his Maule mauled by a hangar fire. "Just" a wingtip; it was in the adjacent hangar.</p>
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<p><a href="https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+field+hangar+fire&client=firefox-a&hs=2Ro&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&imgil=tXQXXlG8acObVM%253A%253BptDDO4UwjuxvNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ftimesofsandiego.com%25252Fcrime%25252F2014%25252F07%25252F29%25252Fexplosive-fire-brown-fields-hangar%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tXQXXlG8acObVM%253A%252CptDDO4UwjuxvNM%252C_&usg=__a3OHk-iq8i--XUtjiWso85BljkI%3D&biw=1519&bih=714&dpr=0.9&ved=0CFAQyjc&ei=wsdyVPHFHu-QigKqmoC4CQ#imgdii=_" target="_blank">https://www.google.com/search?q=brown+field+hangar+fire&client=firefox-a&hs=2Ro&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=sb&tbm=isch&imgil=tXQXXlG8acObVM%253A%253BptDDO4UwjuxvNM%253Bhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Ftimesofsandiego.com%25252Fcrime%25252F2014%25252F07%25252F29%25252Fexplosive-fire-brown-fields-hangar%25252F&source=iu&pf=m&fir=tXQXXlG8acObVM%253A%252CptDDO4UwjuxvNM%252C_&usg=__a3OHk-iq8i--XUtjiWso85BljkI%3D&biw=1519&bih=714&dpr=0.9&ved=0CFAQyjc&ei=wsdyVPHFHu-QigKqmoC4CQ#imgdii=_</a></p>
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<p>Some propane tanks blew and threw shrapnel onto a friend of mine's hangar across the way . . .</p>
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<p>How do you ground your cans? Are they plastic or metal?</p>
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<p>Wayne</p>