750 STOL : First time builder control cable swage question - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T05:20:55Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/750-stol-first-time-builder-control-cable-swage-question?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A867497&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noExcellent point, thank you!tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-22:2606393:Comment:8674972022-04-22T18:46:04.217ZJonathan Robinsonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JonathanRobinson
<p>Excellent point, thank you!</p>
<p>Excellent point, thank you!</p> Jonathan,The FAA recommends t…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-22:2606393:Comment:8674962022-04-22T17:45:04.012ZEarnest Fontenothttps://zenith.aero/profile/EarnestFontenot
<p>Jonathan,<br></br>The FAA recommends that the first compression (squeeze) of a sleeve is to be in the center, second is next to the thimble and the third is the one farthest from the thimble.<br></br>I am sure that there is a good reason, and probably testing, that this order is prescribed. I would not be comfortable with the method you suggest because it is not what has been recognized to work for many years.<br></br>Ask yourself why you are thinking of using something that was done incorrectly or in a…</p>
<p>Jonathan,<br/>The FAA recommends that the first compression (squeeze) of a sleeve is to be in the center, second is next to the thimble and the third is the one farthest from the thimble.<br/>I am sure that there is a good reason, and probably testing, that this order is prescribed. I would not be comfortable with the method you suggest because it is not what has been recognized to work for many years.<br/>Ask yourself why you are thinking of using something that was done incorrectly or in a manner that is not recommend. Is it the time and/or money that may be required to make sure it is done correctly?<br/>Remember, you, your family and friends will more than likely fly in this plane. The worst case possible outcome is not worth taking a chance that "It will be alright."<br/>I would suggest that even if you have to replace every single component for the all cables (sleeves, thimbles, cables, etc.) that this is a minor cost in time and money compared to flying something that may not be safe.<br/>These cables work the controls of the plane and they have no backup system, they must be in shape so that they can be relied upon all the time.<br/>Hope this helps,<br/>Earnie</p> Earnie,
I have determined th…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-22:2606393:Comment:8674142022-04-22T16:11:07.226ZJonathan Robinsonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JonathanRobinson
<p>Earnie,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have determined that the cable sleeves are copper with a coating. </p>
<p></p>
<p style="font-weight: 400;">To keep from replacing all my control cables I wonder if the following procedure would be acceptable:</p>
<ol style="font-weight: 400;">
<li>Swage the middle section of the fitting - I purchased the proper swage tool</li>
<li>Use a go/no go gauge to check all three swages on the sleeve</li>
<li>If the swages on either end fail to pass through the gauge re-swage…</li>
</ol>
<p>Earnie,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I have determined that the cable sleeves are copper with a coating. </p>
<p></p>
<p style="font-weight: 400;">To keep from replacing all my control cables I wonder if the following procedure would be acceptable:</p>
<ol style="font-weight: 400;">
<li>Swage the middle section of the fitting - I purchased the proper swage tool</li>
<li>Use a go/no go gauge to check all three swages on the sleeve</li>
<li>If the swages on either end fail to pass through the gauge re-swage the ends</li>
<li>If any of the three fail to pass through the gauge replace the sleeve with new</li>
</ol>
<p></p>
<p>Please let me know your thoughts. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Thanks for the help!</p>
<p style="font-weight: 400;"> </p> Thanks Earnie!tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-22:2606393:Comment:8674052022-04-22T03:02:48.082ZJonathan Robinsonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JonathanRobinson
Thanks Earnie!
Thanks Earnie! Jonathan,
Attached should be…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8674782022-04-21T22:01:28.072ZEarnest Fontenothttps://zenith.aero/profile/EarnestFontenot
<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Attached should be Zenith's Construction Standards.</p>
<p>Also can be found at:</p>
<p><a href="http://zenithair.net/wp-content/uploads/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf" target="_blank">http://zenithair.net/wp-content/uploads/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf</a></p>
<p>On page CS #500 you will see "Detail T" in it Zenith calls out the sleeves.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Earnie</p>
<p>Jonathan,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Attached should be Zenith's Construction Standards.</p>
<p>Also can be found at:</p>
<p><a href="http://zenithair.net/wp-content/uploads/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf" target="_blank">http://zenithair.net/wp-content/uploads/pdf-doc/zenair%20construction%20standards%20draft%201-07.pdf</a></p>
<p>On page CS #500 you will see "Detail T" in it Zenith calls out the sleeves.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Earnie</p> Everyone,
Thank you for your…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8675632022-04-21T21:04:04.118ZJonathan Robinsonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JonathanRobinson
<p>Everyone,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you for your replies. I am so thankful to have this community as a resource, especially as a first time builder. :) </p>
<p></p>
<p>I did consider putting a swage in the middle of the sleeve, but I was concerned with it loosening the swages on either side. I have new sleeves, a swage tool and a gauge on order from AS. </p>
<p></p>
<p>One of my main questioned that I am trying to get answered what is the construction material used for the sleeves that Zenith…</p>
<p>Everyone,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Thank you for your replies. I am so thankful to have this community as a resource, especially as a first time builder. :) </p>
<p></p>
<p>I did consider putting a swage in the middle of the sleeve, but I was concerned with it loosening the swages on either side. I have new sleeves, a swage tool and a gauge on order from AS. </p>
<p></p>
<p>One of my main questioned that I am trying to get answered what is the construction material used for the sleeves that Zenith supplied in this kit from back in 2009? The relevance of this question is stainless sleeves only require two compressions according to the sleeve manufactures paperwork. See attached image of sheet that I found in the kit. <a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10407085482?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener">9408F54B-52CD-4E26-A423-8B8A7792B139.JPG</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>I am hoping to get this question answered from the sleeve manufacturer. I am going to examine it more closely today to attempt to determine if it is zinc coated copper, aluminum or stainless. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Finally, Earnest, thanks for the suggestion on AC 43.13-1B! I have printed the relevant pages for review. </p>
<p></p>
<p>Jonathan</p> Jonathan,I would recommend yo…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8675572022-04-21T17:17:29.811ZEarnest Fontenothttps://zenith.aero/profile/EarnestFontenot
<p>Jonathan,<br></br>I would recommend you look at AC 43.13-1B Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair.<br></br>This is the FAA's guidance to repairs upon aircraft. It can also be used to learn how to properly do many things while building your own aircraft.<br></br>It can be downloaded here:…<br></br></p>
<p>Jonathan,<br/>I would recommend you look at AC 43.13-1B Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair.<br/>This is the FAA's guidance to repairs upon aircraft. It can also be used to learn how to properly do many things while building your own aircraft.<br/>It can be downloaded here:<br/><a href="https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861" target="_blank">https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/99861</a><br/>I would direct you to pages 7-32 through 7-34 where it talks about the Nicopress Process.<br/>What you will also need (if you don't have one) is a GO-NO GO SLEEVE GAUGE.<br/>Aircraft Spruce sells them here:<br/><a href="https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/gonogo.php?clickkey=3895382" target="_blank">https://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/gonogo.php?clickkey=3895382</a><br/>Hope this helps,</p>
<p>Earnie</p> I found a deal on ours on Eba…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8675552022-04-21T13:25:46.567ZArnie Minearhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ArnieMinear
<p>I found a deal on ours on Ebay, important to get the proper tool for this, and measure the completed swage for minimum compression. I have a spec sheet for these.<a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10406087058?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10406087058?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p>
<p>I found a deal on ours on Ebay, important to get the proper tool for this, and measure the completed swage for minimum compression. I have a spec sheet for these.<a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10406087058?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener"><img src="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/10406087058?profile=RESIZE_710x" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p></p> Thanks Arnie. Good answer. …tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8675522022-04-21T13:16:29.859ZDouglas Binderhttps://zenith.aero/profile/DouglasBinder
<p>Thanks Arnie. Good answer. I'm looking at swaging tools now.</p>
<p>Thanks Arnie. Good answer. I'm looking at swaging tools now.</p> probably not a good idea, see…tag:zenith.aero,2022-04-21:2606393:Comment:8674602022-04-21T13:14:29.809ZArnie Minearhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ArnieMinear
<p>probably not a good idea, see the sequence for swaging is the center swage first. As you do each swage the connector expands outwards, so doing the sequence in correct order is important.</p>
<p></p>
<p>probably not a good idea, see the sequence for swaging is the center swage first. As you do each swage the connector expands outwards, so doing the sequence in correct order is important.</p>
<p></p>