701 Aileron authority - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T14:56:26Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/701y?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A830598&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noFor clarification, the four p…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-31:2606393:Comment:8305982021-03-31T02:48:15.198ZPaul Saccanihttps://zenith.aero/profile/PaulJohnSaccani
<p>For clarification, the four position control has the fourth position identical to the first notch (15 degrees) - the second notch is thirty degrees in the two notch system, double what you get in the four position system.</p>
<p>Without a divorce, flaps 30 restricts aileron travel and has much greater adverse yaw. If you are going to fiddle with the geometry of the bell cranks, think long and hard, make careful measurements of the up/down deflections and how they change with flap, so you…</p>
<p>For clarification, the four position control has the fourth position identical to the first notch (15 degrees) - the second notch is thirty degrees in the two notch system, double what you get in the four position system.</p>
<p>Without a divorce, flaps 30 restricts aileron travel and has much greater adverse yaw. If you are going to fiddle with the geometry of the bell cranks, think long and hard, make careful measurements of the up/down deflections and how they change with flap, so you can compare what you get afterwards. Also consider changing the geometry for differential ailerons at the same time, to reduce adverse yaw.</p> As I recall, the demonstrated…tag:zenith.aero,2021-03-31:2606393:Comment:8308512021-03-31T02:40:40.147ZPaul Saccanihttps://zenith.aero/profile/PaulJohnSaccani
<p>As I recall, the demonstrated crosswind capability of the 701 is an astonishing 30 knots, presumably with a rather large crab angle. </p>
<p>As I recall, the demonstrated crosswind capability of the 701 is an astonishing 30 knots, presumably with a rather large crab angle. </p> I am going to have to either…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-02:2606393:Comment:7988782021-01-02T05:01:42.480ZKevin Beriaulthttps://zenith.aero/profile/KevinBeriault
I am going to have to either divorce the bellcrank or modify approach procedures .. the work involved is significant so I need to decide wether it is an inconvenience or a legitimate safety issue ... thanks again kevin
I am going to have to either divorce the bellcrank or modify approach procedures .. the work involved is significant so I need to decide wether it is an inconvenience or a legitimate safety issue ... thanks again kevin ...and don’t forget to use th…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-02:2606393:Comment:7988042021-01-02T00:33:06.882ZJim and Amelia Isaacshttps://zenith.aero/profile/JimIsaacs
<p>...and don’t forget to use the rudder as one of your tools to assist in counteracting a low speed torque roll. </p>
<p>...and don’t forget to use the rudder as one of your tools to assist in counteracting a low speed torque roll. </p> The off center elevator cable…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7987952021-01-01T23:32:44.111ZJoe Spencerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JoeSpencer
<p>The off center elevator cable bellcrank tightens the cables when applying right aileron. the more flaps out the more the geometry affects the amount of right aileron available. Taking the bellcrank off the torque tube and mounting it solid on the airframe solves the problem. You cab google it there's lots of info. Some run the cables very slack so they can get more aileron with full flaps.</p>
<p>The aileron travel according to the plans isn't really what you need here; but the available…</p>
<p>The off center elevator cable bellcrank tightens the cables when applying right aileron. the more flaps out the more the geometry affects the amount of right aileron available. Taking the bellcrank off the torque tube and mounting it solid on the airframe solves the problem. You cab google it there's lots of info. Some run the cables very slack so they can get more aileron with full flaps.</p>
<p>The aileron travel according to the plans isn't really what you need here; but the available aileron travel as flaps are further extended. Very easy to check it off the top surface of the aileron with digital level. Takes a few minutes. If yours is further restricted with increasing flaps then there is a potential problem on a landing with full flaps, slow airspeed and a right crosswind. Not enough aileron. It doesn't take much if you're slow like 40 TAS. Same thing on a slow full power go around with full flaps, slow airspeed and 912 ULS. It will roll left unless you bring the power in slowly and get the flaps up as soon as airspeed permits. Not enough aileron to control it. I think that's why there's only one notch allowed now and I agree. Also I have heard ZAC personnel say "just fly 50" that's about 1.6 Vso. Not very STOL.</p>
<p>I'm speaking of my airplane only. I don't know what others have found with theirs.</p>
<p></p> Yes , they are in the origina…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7987472021-01-01T15:31:55.811ZKevin Beriaulthttps://zenith.aero/profile/KevinBeriault
Yes , they are in the original plans , currently the 701 is to spec , but I would like to improve the roll authority , appreciate all the input ..
Yes , they are in the original plans , currently the 701 is to spec , but I would like to improve the roll authority , appreciate all the input .. Kevin, there is a Zenith draw…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7986522021-01-01T12:00:24.566ZJim and Amelia Isaacshttps://zenith.aero/profile/JimIsaacs
<p>Kevin, there is a Zenith drawing that shows the method and locations to measure the deflections, do you have this document? </p>
<p>Kevin, there is a Zenith drawing that shows the method and locations to measure the deflections, do you have this document? </p> I had measured the aileron an…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7984552021-01-01T02:27:35.760ZKevin Beriaulthttps://zenith.aero/profile/KevinBeriault
I had measured the aileron angles on the side of the fuselage using a protractor ,I will check again , How effective is divorcing the elevator ?
I had measured the aileron angles on the side of the fuselage using a protractor ,I will check again , How effective is divorcing the elevator ? Put a digital level on the ai…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7982262021-01-01T02:14:18.296ZJoe Spencerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JoeSpencer
<p>Put a digital level on the aileron top surface and check the travel at the different flap settings. Believe you will find that the more flaps the less aileron. Really shouldn't do much right xwind landings til divorce the ailerons from the elevator bellcrank. On my airplane anyway. Let us know what you find.</p>
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<p>Put a digital level on the aileron top surface and check the travel at the different flap settings. Believe you will find that the more flaps the less aileron. Really shouldn't do much right xwind landings til divorce the ailerons from the elevator bellcrank. On my airplane anyway. Let us know what you find.</p>
<p></p> I have the 4 position flap up…tag:zenith.aero,2021-01-01:2606393:Comment:7983092021-01-01T01:40:42.715ZKevin Beriaulthttps://zenith.aero/profile/KevinBeriault
I have the 4 position flap upgrade , the elevator is not “divorced” never though much about it but I will need to compare full flap and no flap aileron effectiveness at slow speeds ...
I have the 4 position flap upgrade , the elevator is not “divorced” never though much about it but I will need to compare full flap and no flap aileron effectiveness at slow speeds ...