Packing fuel - again - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T08:14:58Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/packing-fuel-again?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A589998&feed=yes&xn_auth=noNo hackles, I just wanted to…tag:zenith.aero,2017-10-02:2606393:Comment:5903182017-10-02T19:11:32.797ZLoren Warnerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/LorenWarner
<p>No hackles, I just wanted to correct a mistake I made, and express why I no monitoring of the slat level would be necessary. </p>
<p>No hackles, I just wanted to correct a mistake I made, and express why I no monitoring of the slat level would be necessary. </p> Loren
Didn't mean to get you…tag:zenith.aero,2017-10-02:2606393:Comment:5904622017-10-02T16:35:41.777ZPhil Smithhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PhilSmith
<p>Loren</p>
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<p>Didn't mean to get your hackles up - right now I'm on a different project of vinyl wrapping cowl - coming along nicely - lots of learning curve though.</p>
<p>I agree with you - but still want to go out and check the actual positions of the units as they would be in normal parked attitude. Also though that I might want a little more control of the fuel - right now all I have is both lines from the tanks leading to the "Zenith Cascolator - read small metal tank" to a…</p>
<p>Loren</p>
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<p>Didn't mean to get your hackles up - right now I'm on a different project of vinyl wrapping cowl - coming along nicely - lots of learning curve though.</p>
<p>I agree with you - but still want to go out and check the actual positions of the units as they would be in normal parked attitude. Also though that I might want a little more control of the fuel - right now all I have is both lines from the tanks leading to the "Zenith Cascolator - read small metal tank" to a Zenith supplied fuel valve and then on the firewall gascolator and engine 912ULS.</p>
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<p>ttfn</p>
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<p>Phil</p>
<p></p> I meant to say "I'd replace t…tag:zenith.aero,2017-10-02:2606393:Comment:5903992017-10-02T16:22:57.167ZLoren Warnerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/LorenWarner
<p>I meant to say "I'd replace the elbow coming out of the tank with a "T", with one branch going to the slat tank." I do not believe filling the slat tank would take long because it's so small and narrow compared to the larger surface area of the main tank. After all, what is the normal gravity feed of a typical fuel supply line? Once filled, the slat tank would essentially be a part of the main tank, as if there were just a baffle in between. No level monitor would be necessary. </p>
<p>I meant to say "I'd replace the elbow coming out of the tank with a "T", with one branch going to the slat tank." I do not believe filling the slat tank would take long because it's so small and narrow compared to the larger surface area of the main tank. After all, what is the normal gravity feed of a typical fuel supply line? Once filled, the slat tank would essentially be a part of the main tank, as if there were just a baffle in between. No level monitor would be necessary. </p> Loren
The slat tank would pro…tag:zenith.aero,2017-10-02:2606393:Comment:5902972017-10-02T00:44:16.146ZPhil Smithhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PhilSmith
<p>Loren</p>
<p>The slat tank would probably fill - but at a very slow rate most probably much slower than the fuel hose from the FBO pump. I thought that one could use a fuel pump of reasonable volume to pump fuel on board to the slat tanks - maybe while taxing to the pumps. Anyway the fuel lines wouldn't have to be extra large to make it work. Just have to match the flow from the pump used to make a reasonable flow / time. </p>
<p>Right now vinyl covering my cowl with a carbon fiber…</p>
<p>Loren</p>
<p>The slat tank would probably fill - but at a very slow rate most probably much slower than the fuel hose from the FBO pump. I thought that one could use a fuel pump of reasonable volume to pump fuel on board to the slat tanks - maybe while taxing to the pumps. Anyway the fuel lines wouldn't have to be extra large to make it work. Just have to match the flow from the pump used to make a reasonable flow / time. </p>
<p>Right now vinyl covering my cowl with a carbon fiber pattern - sure not as easy as it looks on Utube but it came out really well - not commercial quality but OK from 25 ft.</p>
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<p>I have the top done and by using a lot of gained knowledge will start on the bottom tomorrow. BTW look up the crazedpilot.com website and peruse the strobe / wig wag / landing lights. Put mine the outboard slats.</p>
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<p>Phil</p> After thinking on this matter…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-30:2606393:Comment:5900992017-09-30T23:15:54.459ZLoren Warnerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/LorenWarner
<p>After thinking on this matter some more, I'd just r<span>eplace the elbow fitting coming out of the bottom of the main tanks fuel supply, and plumb one branch to a low point on the slat. This should allow for filling of the slat when the wing tank is being filled, and suppling fuel to run the engine through that same line and fittings. You'll still need to install a high point vent on the slat, but that's easy. I believe the existing brackets should be able to support the extra weight, but…</span></p>
<p>After thinking on this matter some more, I'd just r<span>eplace the elbow fitting coming out of the bottom of the main tanks fuel supply, and plumb one branch to a low point on the slat. This should allow for filling of the slat when the wing tank is being filled, and suppling fuel to run the engine through that same line and fittings. You'll still need to install a high point vent on the slat, but that's easy. I believe the existing brackets should be able to support the extra weight, but that also needs examined. </span></p> In the spirit of experimentin…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-30:2606393:Comment:5901712017-09-30T18:05:09.890ZLoren Warnerhttps://zenith.aero/profile/LorenWarner
<p>In the spirit of experimenting, another idea I imagined is to plumb the slat tanks to the main tanks so that it will fill and vent with the main tank. To do this,</p>
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<p>Replace the elbow fitting coming out of the bottom of the main tanks fuel supply with a "T" or "Y" so one branch flows as it normally does, and the other goes to a high area of the slat tank. This, in theory, would allow the slat tanks to fill at the same time as the main tanks. As for venting, let it vent out…</p>
<p>In the spirit of experimenting, another idea I imagined is to plumb the slat tanks to the main tanks so that it will fill and vent with the main tank. To do this,</p>
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<p>Replace the elbow fitting coming out of the bottom of the main tanks fuel supply with a "T" or "Y" so one branch flows as it normally does, and the other goes to a high area of the slat tank. This, in theory, would allow the slat tanks to fill at the same time as the main tanks. As for venting, let it vent out the top as a wing tank would. </p>
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<p>Then, using a "T" or "Y", plump the slat tanks supply outlet (low point) to the wing tanks supply outlet. Isolation valves or plugs are optional. Not sure I'd even bother with a sight gauge.</p>
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<p> </p> PHIL, THE "t" FITTING GOES IN…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-30:2606393:Comment:5901532017-09-30T13:57:59.381ZBob Joneshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobJones
<p>PHIL, THE "t" FITTING GOES IN THE OUTLET FROM THE MAIN TANK , THE DUAL TANK FUEL SWITCHING VALVE GOES IN THE LINE BETWEEN THE AUX. AND MAIN , YOU PLUG THE {NORMALLY OPEN PORT ON THE SWITCH VALVE] THE FUEL THEN ONLY PASSES THRU WHEN YOU ENERGISE THE SOLENOID,.. SINCE THE AUX. TANK ENDS UP HIGHER ON THE WING , [OUTBOARD OF THE MAIN AND CLOSE TO THE SPAR IT GRAVITY FEEDS THE MAIN AND PASSES FUEL THRU THE "T TO THE ENGINE .., SINCE THE MAIN TANK FUEL IS IN THE LOWER HALF OF A HALF FULL TANK…</p>
<p>PHIL, THE "t" FITTING GOES IN THE OUTLET FROM THE MAIN TANK , THE DUAL TANK FUEL SWITCHING VALVE GOES IN THE LINE BETWEEN THE AUX. AND MAIN , YOU PLUG THE {NORMALLY OPEN PORT ON THE SWITCH VALVE] THE FUEL THEN ONLY PASSES THRU WHEN YOU ENERGISE THE SOLENOID,.. SINCE THE AUX. TANK ENDS UP HIGHER ON THE WING , [OUTBOARD OF THE MAIN AND CLOSE TO THE SPAR IT GRAVITY FEEDS THE MAIN AND PASSES FUEL THRU THE "T TO THE ENGINE .., SINCE THE MAIN TANK FUEL IS IN THE LOWER HALF OF A HALF FULL TANK , THE AUX. FUEL ENDS UP ABOVE THE MAIN FUEL LEVEL , THAT WAY THE MAIN TANK FUEL GAGE IN THEORY WILL READ FUEL UNTIL THE AUX IS EMPTY , AND ALSO THE MAIN TANK FUEL WILL NOT ALLOW AIR INTO THE EMPTY LINE FROM THE AUX.TANK IF YOU DONT CLOSE THE SOLENOID </p> Loren,
Just seemed like an e…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-29:2606393:Comment:5899222017-09-29T17:33:25.011ZPhil Smithhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PhilSmith
<p>Loren,</p>
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<p>Just seemed like an easy solution - further thinking leads me to a couple of things: first one could seal up as much as you wanted - within weight reason - and then easily plumb it down the front "A" pillar to the regular fuel line. Think about this: vent the tank with an inverted "L" vent, install a fuel pump to back-fill the tanks during refueling thus no cap, then use it as required by valving the lines from the "slat tanks", make a sight gage on the inboard…</p>
<p>Loren,</p>
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<p>Just seemed like an easy solution - further thinking leads me to a couple of things: first one could seal up as much as you wanted - within weight reason - and then easily plumb it down the front "A" pillar to the regular fuel line. Think about this: vent the tank with an inverted "L" vent, install a fuel pump to back-fill the tanks during refueling thus no cap, then use it as required by valving the lines from the "slat tanks", make a sight gage on the inboard slat cover and you could still fly while you are whooping all this up with the slats removed - further checking the capabilities of the 70whatever you have.</p>
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<p>Just my thoughts</p>
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<p>Phil</p> Bob,
Sure would like to see…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-29:2606393:Comment:5899982017-09-29T17:15:11.480ZPhil Smithhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PhilSmith
<p>Bob,</p>
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<p>Sure would like to see pictures or sketch of your setup - also maybe some part numbers etc that would get me on the right track. Seems five gal tanks are available from Zenith or could build my own.Did you do this like I willl as an after thought or from the beginning?? Trying to visualize the system setup: T fitting would go to main tank and aux at the rear outlet of the main, is the electric solenoid in the line between tanks or between main tank and T or where?? Any…</p>
<p>Bob,</p>
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<p>Sure would like to see pictures or sketch of your setup - also maybe some part numbers etc that would get me on the right track. Seems five gal tanks are available from Zenith or could build my own.Did you do this like I willl as an after thought or from the beginning?? Trying to visualize the system setup: T fitting would go to main tank and aux at the rear outlet of the main, is the electric solenoid in the line between tanks or between main tank and T or where?? Any info would be appreciated</p>
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<p>Still grinnin !!</p>
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<p>Phil</p>
<p>madriver42 at gmail.com</p> Phil, I know you are reluctan…tag:zenith.aero,2017-09-29:2606393:Comment:5898152017-09-29T14:17:44.806ZBob Joneshttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobJones
<p>Phil, I know you are reluctant to open the wing ..BUT a fairly easy addition is to add the OLD zenith 5.5 gallon tanks outboard of your mains , they fit between the ribs and extend back only about10 inches and are tight to the spar so on CG ,you only have to put a "T" fitting in the main tank outlet and a electric solenoid between the two tanks to block the aux. tank, you can use a dual tank switching valve from NAPA and plug the normally open port , with this set up you need NO gas gage…</p>
<p>Phil, I know you are reluctant to open the wing ..BUT a fairly easy addition is to add the OLD zenith 5.5 gallon tanks outboard of your mains , they fit between the ribs and extend back only about10 inches and are tight to the spar so on CG ,you only have to put a "T" fitting in the main tank outlet and a electric solenoid between the two tanks to block the aux. tank, you can use a dual tank switching valve from NAPA and plug the normally open port , with this set up you need NO gas gage because the main tank will read fuel until the aux. is empty , I switch on the aux. at half tank on main ,I have right and left toggles only on dash for the two tanks , and it works flawlessly . </p>