NTSB Safety Recommendation - 601XL - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T14:05:54Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/ntsb-safety-recommendation?commentId=2606393%3AComment%3A19166&feed=yes&xn_auth=noDavid I have been looking for…tag:zenith.aero,2010-12-22:2606393:Comment:854432010-12-22T02:33:03.658ZAlfonso Lebron-Bergeshttps://zenith.aero/profile/AlfonsoLebronBerges
<p>David I have been looking for pushrods installations instead of cables.</p>
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<p>Could you guide me to a site where this info could be obtained?</p>
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<p>Please answer to my email address.</p>
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<p>Thanks in advance for your help;</p>
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<p>David I have been looking for pushrods installations instead of cables.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Could you guide me to a site where this info could be obtained?</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Please answer to my email address.</p>
<p> </p>
<p>Thanks in advance for your help;</p>
<p> </p>
<p> </p>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica;">Alfonso Lebron-Berges</p>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica;">alebron@bellsouth.net</p>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica;">ZODIAC 601-XL</p>
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<p style="margin: 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px 0.0px; font: 12.0px Helvetica;">Rudder, elevator and flaps completed.</p>
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<p> </p> Mark - Great point. - Christag:zenith.aero,2009-05-12:2606393:Comment:223012009-05-12T13:32:16.674ZChris Aysenhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ChrisAysen
Mark - Great point. - Chris
Mark - Great point. - Chris Ralph - You're right about th…tag:zenith.aero,2009-05-12:2606393:Comment:223002009-05-12T13:26:03.565ZChris Aysenhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ChrisAysen
Ralph - You're right about the lack of tension numbers in the plans. What I did this past weekend was put the controls through the limitations of quadrant travel. The result was with controls in neutral position there was a slight amount of slack most in the elevator down control cable. I find the extreme of a right downward turn is where the cable reaches its outer limits (not likely you would ever make that kind of turn). I adjusted the elevator up control cable just to where the horn touches…
Ralph - You're right about the lack of tension numbers in the plans. What I did this past weekend was put the controls through the limitations of quadrant travel. The result was with controls in neutral position there was a slight amount of slack most in the elevator down control cable. I find the extreme of a right downward turn is where the cable reaches its outer limits (not likely you would ever make that kind of turn). I adjusted the elevator up control cable just to where the horn touches the aileron travel stop (right aileron); it is at its full tension when it hits the stop. - Chris Sorry for your loss. However,…tag:zenith.aero,2009-05-09:2606393:Comment:220362009-05-09T04:54:59.893ZMark Ertzhttps://zenith.aero/profile/MarkErtz
Sorry for your loss. However, did you notice the placards on the a/c before you got in? When you get in an experimental you do it at your own risk. If you trust the builder, if you trust the pilot and if you trust the maintainer, get in. But if you have any doubt do not get in and do not buy in. Why should big government do your thinking for you. Your logic would have never allowed the Wright Brothers off the ground. Your thinking would have stopped Lindbergh from flying across the…
Sorry for your loss. However, did you notice the placards on the a/c before you got in? When you get in an experimental you do it at your own risk. If you trust the builder, if you trust the pilot and if you trust the maintainer, get in. But if you have any doubt do not get in and do not buy in. Why should big government do your thinking for you. Your logic would have never allowed the Wright Brothers off the ground. Your thinking would have stopped Lindbergh from flying across the Atlantic.<br />
Maybe your family would have been better served by putting your money in a trust fund, educational fund or a boat. Playing the blame game is just wrong. There are too many varibles and too many unkowns to blame Zenith. I make a point to read everything written one the 601XL; NTSB, FAA Zenith, youtube, all the ADs, etc. Pilots bragging about 180 mph dives and stand the a/c on it's tail. One guy in a new 650 on youtub made a T/O which clearly shows him dragging the tail on the concrete runway. Is that Chris Heinz's fault, too? Do you really think his family is out to hurt you? Thank God the FAA is not buying into your witch hunt.<br />
Meanwhile, your gossip is misleading others. I have read every accident report on the 601XL. The Word flutter never came up on one of them. You are just impowering the airlines, TSA, and the FBOers to get us out of the skies, out of the market and out of the industry. In addition, you blogging drives the distrust in our a/c with the result of driving the value down, too.<br />
OK. Address, adjust and fix the problem, but do not create bad guys where there are none. Grounding this model is over kill. Your killing the livilyhood of thousand of people w/ your over kill. Go to Oshkosh and tell all those people their grounded. Kill the venders, merchants and aviation related producers because .001 % of experimental crash. You are right to want a answer but you are wrong to hang us all for your loss. Try this in your grumman, dea…tag:zenith.aero,2009-05-08:2606393:Comment:219742009-05-08T04:06:57.106ZMark Ertzhttps://zenith.aero/profile/MarkErtz
Try this in your grumman, dead stick. Flys like a rock does'nt it. Dead stick a 601XL and one can fly circles around the towering smoke from your crash site on the way down. There is an old saying about your make, "Grumman are not flying if they are not running". The early trainers were so very bad on approach and very under powered. For another thing, the round spar gas tanks allowed for fuel to shift while in slow flight during pattern turns. So when they spun in, the fuel lines in the cabin…
Try this in your grumman, dead stick. Flys like a rock does'nt it. Dead stick a 601XL and one can fly circles around the towering smoke from your crash site on the way down. There is an old saying about your make, "Grumman are not flying if they are not running". The early trainers were so very bad on approach and very under powered. For another thing, the round spar gas tanks allowed for fuel to shift while in slow flight during pattern turns. So when they spun in, the fuel lines in the cabin broke on impact and you burned.<br />
Flutter happens in any a/c when builders build badly or/and pilots fly off of the flight envolope. Both varibles that Zenith and kit producers cannot control. Nothing insures control once the a/c is broken. That is why they are placard "Experimental". You have choices in America. Don't fly in a/c you do not trust, do not fly with pilots you do not trust and do not fly w/ builders you do not trust. But do not trust big / more government to exercise good judgement for you. Fly free and do not tread on me. I own a 601XL Quick build w/…tag:zenith.aero,2009-05-08:2606393:Comment:219652009-05-08T01:34:47.099ZMark Ertzhttps://zenith.aero/profile/MarkErtz
I own a 601XL Quick build w/ 320 hours on it. I have never had flutter in any of my controls, ever. I did adjust my tension as the Eurpean/Zenair AD recommended it to be adjusted long ago. The varibles that Zenith cannot control is how pilots fly the a/c and how they maintain it. With over 6000 serial numbers out there, the stress test for Zenith is better than compared to most factory built a/c.<br />
You guys would have grounded the Wright Brothers and stopped Lindbergh from flying the Atlantic.…
I own a 601XL Quick build w/ 320 hours on it. I have never had flutter in any of my controls, ever. I did adjust my tension as the Eurpean/Zenair AD recommended it to be adjusted long ago. The varibles that Zenith cannot control is how pilots fly the a/c and how they maintain it. With over 6000 serial numbers out there, the stress test for Zenith is better than compared to most factory built a/c.<br />
You guys would have grounded the Wright Brothers and stopped Lindbergh from flying the Atlantic. The bottom line is that it is experimental for a reason. The builders are barred from maintaining all other aircraft for a reason. I very sorry you lost a friend in a air accident. However, do not take my right to flight away from me because of this accident. Why do you think so many kits are availuable in America? Why do you think the aircraft industry is so strong and great in America? It is because you have a "CHOICE".<br />
Do not get into a experimantal a/c you you doubt the pilot, the builder or the design. But do not shoot everybody else down because you lost a friend. Superman fail off a horse & broke his neck, should we shot the horse. Fly free but do not tread on me. The Zenith Zodiac 601XL is a great a/c. Keep this chatter up and you may get your wish, everybody grounded. No airplanes, no horses, & no freedom.......... I have not heard of any flutt…tag:zenith.aero,2009-04-26:2606393:Comment:205282009-04-26T05:16:56.845ZRalph Sansonhttps://zenith.aero/profile/RalphSanson
I have not heard of any flutter on my or any 701/801 series. There are a number of reasons that it should not be as susceptible<br />
<br />
Aileron (flaperon) controls are pushrod<br />
Ailerons neutral set is effectively down droop meaning preload of the surfaces during flight<br />
Aileron hinge point is aft of leading edge<br />
Wing is twin strut braced<br />
The plane doesnt go very fast - even in a dive<br />
<br />
There are some areas that might be more susceptible<br />
Elevator rigging does not have positive cable tension in all control…
I have not heard of any flutter on my or any 701/801 series. There are a number of reasons that it should not be as susceptible<br />
<br />
Aileron (flaperon) controls are pushrod<br />
Ailerons neutral set is effectively down droop meaning preload of the surfaces during flight<br />
Aileron hinge point is aft of leading edge<br />
Wing is twin strut braced<br />
The plane doesnt go very fast - even in a dive<br />
<br />
There are some areas that might be more susceptible<br />
Elevator rigging does not have positive cable tension in all control quadrants<br />
No rigging tensions given in the plans, construction manual or operating manual<br />
<br />
Ralph Has anyone out there ever hea…tag:zenith.aero,2009-04-22:2606393:Comment:199662009-04-22T12:41:49.597ZChris Aysenhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ChrisAysen
Has anyone out there ever heard of flutter on the 701 either the ailerons or the elevator?
Has anyone out there ever heard of flutter on the 701 either the ailerons or the elevator? I owned a Grumman Tiger for f…tag:zenith.aero,2009-04-21:2606393:Comment:198642009-04-21T20:34:59.489ZBob Pustellhttps://zenith.aero/profile/BobPustell
I owned a Grumman Tiger for five years. A wonderful factory built airplane with delightful control harmony. The flight controls were all mass balanced. The aileron balance weight was on the end of a bar on the outboard end of the aileron, hidden in the wingtip. The really clever part is that when the aileron deflected upwards, the balance weight deflected downwards and poked out a slot in the bottom of the wintip and acted as an aileron spade. The weight was shaped so that it could act as a…
I owned a Grumman Tiger for five years. A wonderful factory built airplane with delightful control harmony. The flight controls were all mass balanced. The aileron balance weight was on the end of a bar on the outboard end of the aileron, hidden in the wingtip. The really clever part is that when the aileron deflected upwards, the balance weight deflected downwards and poked out a slot in the bottom of the wintip and acted as an aileron spade. The weight was shaped so that it could act as a spade. This gave the Tiger a very nice, light, delicate feel in the roll axis.<br />
<br />
Maybe Zenith (or some other party) could come up with a similar arrangement. I am still building my plane so I do not have much 601XL time yet. However, I remember my few flights in the 601XL as having a nice responsive elevator but a kind of heavy aileron. Maybe we could fix two things at once, get mass balancing and get lighter aileron feel.<br />
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Pushrod tubes in place of cables and pulleys would help the loose control cable tension issue, and would give smoother operating ailerons (I would like them for that reason alone) but only mass balancing will eliminate the possibility of flutter. Get a grip Art.... Jay, Dave…tag:zenith.aero,2009-04-21:2606393:Comment:198102009-04-21T13:49:18.601Zjames m dunhamhttps://zenith.aero/profile/jamesmdunham
Get a grip Art.... Jay, Dave X and Doug are right on the money. Let's take a scientific approach to this problem and not start pointing fingers at other pilots, you think are "Chicken Littles".
Get a grip Art.... Jay, Dave X and Doug are right on the money. Let's take a scientific approach to this problem and not start pointing fingers at other pilots, you think are "Chicken Littles".