Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Daniel Niendorff on May 27, 2018 at 6:38am

I have liability only through Falcon on my 801 with io-375 and Catto prop.  Runs me about 1200/yr.

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on May 27, 2018 at 7:28am

Charlie,

I'm a little confused ... are you asking about "what engine/prop" as it relates to insurance quotes (I'm not sure if it does relate since at least in my case, I don't recall my broker even asked about my 750's engine/prop!  They basically only wanted to know if it was single engine and whether the gear was fixed or retract.), OR, are you throwing in a second topic?  If you are adding a second topic, it really should be posted separately or you'll wind up with a difficult-to-follow discussion because some will be talking about insurance and some about engine/props! If you did mean the inquiry about engine/props as a second topic and not related to the insurance query, look at the "Featured Topics" at the top of this page, John Greiner has an extensive Google spreadsheet of nearly 100 Zenith aircraft of all model with very detailed information about equipment including engines and props.

Also, since this is the Open Forum, it is not model specific.  Are you interested in insurance quotes on a specific model?  I would think the engine/prop query would be a lot more relevant if you are interested in a specific model - engines and props would be quite different for a 701 vs an 801!  Remember, in the Open Forum, most members won't have a clue what plane you're talking about unless you tell them in the initial post.  Obviously, if posting in a model-specific forum such as the 701, STOL 750, etc., the reader assumes that's the plane you're talking about.

You probably caught my drift that I wanted to use this as a "teaching moment" for the group. Please take no offense at my questions/criticisms and thanks for your active participation in the forums!

BTW, last year I paid $1035 for $65K hull (no deductible) and $1,000,000 liability for my STOL 750.  My insurance is from AIG Insurance through Tracey Ferguson at Coley-Christian Aviation Insurance brokers.  I highly recommend getting an independent aviation insurance broker - they get all your information once and "shop" the market for you.  They do all the work and present you with a list of quotes.  By using an independent broker, my rates have always been much lower than the EAA and AOPA-sponsored brokers.  Their services are at no cost to you and like I said, they do all the work.  A motivated broker can "sell" you to the underwriter's (who they usually know personally) and often get you a better deal.

John

Zenith.aero Forum Moderator

N750A

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Permalink Reply by Gary Welch on May 27, 2018 at 1:54pm

I have a 601XL with a lycoming O-235. i have liability of $1,000,000 property, $0 deductible and no hull coverage.

Insurance company is Avemco and cost for this year was $367. I have 700 hours experience (200 in type) and an IFR rating.

Pretty sure engine type has little to do with insurance costs, but I could be wrong.

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Permalink Reply by Gil DeVault on May 27, 2018 at 6:02pm

I have the XL 601 0-235 engine full coverage, 30K on airframe for a little over  1 thousand dollars ,independent dealer. I also have coverage on a 601 I'm building for 250 dollars per year. Talk to an insurance agent and ask his rates on the various engines. There are as many reasons for using a certified engine as there are for an alternative engine, do your research, and decide what works best for your own peace of mind. Personally I preferer either an 0 200 or an 0-235. The 0-235 is what I have in both my planes. I found their cost were no more expensive that several auto engine conversions. But bear in mind that is only my opinion and there are many successful homebuilts with alternative engines. 

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Permalink Reply by charlie rosenzweig on May 27, 2018 at 2:38pm

Thanks to all who have posted.

Johns, yes this is strictly related to seeking info on insurance.  Some companies shy away from non-certified engines and or props so it is helpful to know if folks who post info can share if their engine is certified or not.   

Good for you that your company did not seem too concerned about which engine.     

Also, I this is non-model specific - at least as far as I am concerned.     

I know this information will be of interest to many so I do encourage people to continue to share their information.

Thank you very much

Charlie

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Permalink Reply by Carl Orton on May 27, 2018 at 3:38pm

While not Zenith specific, I do have actual experience.

While at the Sonex workshop for my prior project, they had a rep from Falcon Insurance talk to us during lunch. That person said that some insurance companies might shy away from rogue engines, but the AeroConversions engine sold by Sonex (a VW block is about the only VW part in it!) had enough flying examples that they weren't concerned about *that* example. I think (opinion only) that if you tried to convert a Ford Cortina (remember those?) engine you might have some challenges.

The first flight of my Sonex was *my* first flight in a Sonex; it was also my first solo tailwheel flight.  I used an independent agent (Ladd Gardner in Dallas) to obtain coverage.  They had to work pretty hard to find it, but they succeeded.  I could only obtain liability during my 40 hr phase 1 tests unless I obtained 5 hrs of dual in a Sonex - in my case, that was pretty much unobtainable.  My premium was $643 as a Private Pilot with 300 hrs / no instrument rating. After my flyoff, I could upgrade to hull coverage at about $1100 total. Don't recall the exact number since I just kept the liability.  This was in 2012.

Remember also that if you build something like an O-200 or O-235 (or any "certificated" engine), if you deviate from the Continental or Lycoming type certificate in any way (hi comp pistons as an example), it's no longer a certificated engine - it's 100% experimental. But, pragmatically, they do know it's based on a proven design, so it's not like you're starting from scratch.

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Permalink Reply by charlie rosenzweig on May 29, 2018 at 9:07pm

Carl,

Good point on the Phase I limitation.   I have heard about this as well and it is good to hear some details about it.   This is something that a lot of folks may not be aware of....

  Thanks for posting!

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Permalink Reply by John Austin on May 30, 2018 at 7:18am

... and remember when you read member's experiences, insurance quotes and pilot requirements for dual or time-in-type will vary wildly due to the differing amounts of total hours, instrument rating, etc.  Makes it really hard to avoid apples-to-oranges comparisons! 

For instance, when I applied for insurance for my STOL 750 (about 2300 hrs then, 1700+ in a C206, and an instrument rating), I was verbally told by my broker "they want 5 hrs in a STOL 750 ... not dual, just 5 hrs."  I flew a friend's 750 and accumulated the hours, but when my actual insurance contract arrived, the pilot requirements section was totally blank!  Seems to me the insurance company wasn't even consistent with itself! Go figure!  ;>)

John

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Permalink Reply by Charles Clayton on May 30, 2018 at 9:26am

Originally I had trouble finding insurance. I bought my 601XLB(Rotax 912) already built for the purposes of taking lessons. I was looking for liability and $45K in hull coverage. The only company I found was Starr Aviation and they wanted $3K+. So I decided to just get liability(and hoped I wouldn't bang it up learning) for $1100+. Initially they wanted all other pilots to have 25 hrs make/model. The chief instructor at the school got them to allow my instructor to just fly the plane 5 hrs solo and then he'd be covered to train me. Another company came forward after this but I decided not to change. When it was time to renew I checked and Starr wasn't going to change their rate despite the fact that I had by then accumulated 60+ hours(although I didn't have my license yet). So I switched to Hallmark Insurance(AIM) for just under $1100 for liability and $35K hull.

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