Hand Tools or Pneumatic? - Zenith Aircraft Builders and Flyers2024-03-29T08:25:32Zhttps://zenith.aero/forum/topics/hand-tools-or-pneumatic?id=2606393%3ATopic%3A266169&feed=yes&xn_auth=noPat: Do not use a hand drill…tag:zenith.aero,2016-02-03:2606393:Comment:4861302016-02-03T15:53:39.032ZJon Crewhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JonCrew
<p>Pat: Do not use a hand drill with a battery attached. Use an air drill, a palm drill as you wish, after 70000 holes you will be thanking me.</p>
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<p>Most of the aircraft tool suppliers get their stuff from florida. the drill as well.</p>
<p>Please Pm me if you require more info.</p>
<p>Jon</p>
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<p>Pat: Do not use a hand drill with a battery attached. Use an air drill, a palm drill as you wish, after 70000 holes you will be thanking me.</p>
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<p>Most of the aircraft tool suppliers get their stuff from florida. the drill as well.</p>
<p>Please Pm me if you require more info.</p>
<p>Jon</p>
<p></p> Here's my 2 cents.
On air com…tag:zenith.aero,2016-02-03:2606393:Comment:4862532016-02-03T05:15:52.494ZGary Reedhttps://zenith.aero/profile/GaryReed
<p>Here's my 2 cents.</p>
<p>On air compressors - My old house and garage is limited to only 15 amp circuits, so I looked a long time for compressors that will pump out the CFMs but not blow the breakers. I finally settled on a California Air Tools, 15 Gal, 2HP compressor. It is oil less and pumps out >5 CFM but is VERY QUIET. It also has an unloading valve to reduce peak amps during startup. It's kind of expensive (but still cheaper than industrial units I've seen) but can be ordered…</p>
<p>Here's my 2 cents.</p>
<p>On air compressors - My old house and garage is limited to only 15 amp circuits, so I looked a long time for compressors that will pump out the CFMs but not blow the breakers. I finally settled on a California Air Tools, 15 Gal, 2HP compressor. It is oil less and pumps out >5 CFM but is VERY QUIET. It also has an unloading valve to reduce peak amps during startup. It's kind of expensive (but still cheaper than industrial units I've seen) but can be ordered through Home Depot.</p>
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<p>My only disappointment so far is the Dewalt cordless drill I got. It got it because it has the highest speed I could find. The problem I have occurs because of the drill brake that stops the drill when you let go of the trigger. After a few pulls of the trigger, the chuck comes loose and the drill bit falls out. So I got the pneumatic one when I went to the Zenith open house.</p>
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<p>Other than that, everything else seems to be personal choice.</p>
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<p>Good Luck and Have Fun.</p> Hahaha! I'll be sure to pick…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-17:2606393:Comment:2664052013-02-17T19:57:44.605ZPatrick Ealyhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PatrickEaly
<p>Hahaha! I'll be sure to pick up a few pair. I remember the metal was very sharp at the workshop until we deburred the edges.</p>
<p>Hahaha! I'll be sure to pick up a few pair. I remember the metal was very sharp at the workshop until we deburred the edges.</p> Patrick, there is a lot of gr…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-17:2606393:Comment:2664712013-02-17T13:56:55.365ZAlan Uhrhttps://zenith.aero/profile/AlanUhr
<p>Patrick, there is a lot of great advise here on the tool your seaking. However, there will probably not be a day go by that you don't cut yourself on the edges of the alum. I recomend a good pair of work gloves that are thin enough to still have the feel of the tools and to be able to pick up those small items. They dont have to be leather. I use a thin pair of what feels like a ruberized material. I don't know the brand but they worked great. If no gloves, a large box of band aids will…</p>
<p>Patrick, there is a lot of great advise here on the tool your seaking. However, there will probably not be a day go by that you don't cut yourself on the edges of the alum. I recomend a good pair of work gloves that are thin enough to still have the feel of the tools and to be able to pick up those small items. They dont have to be leather. I use a thin pair of what feels like a ruberized material. I don't know the brand but they worked great. If no gloves, a large box of band aids will work. Alan</p> I bought a Craftsman air comp…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-17:2606393:Comment:2662152013-02-17T03:18:21.595ZPatrick Hoythttps://zenith.aero/profile/PatrickHoyt
<p>I bought a Craftsman air compressor (about $400) and one of the good Sioux air drills. A good air compressor is very handy to have around for a lot of other stuff as well...</p>
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<p>But most of my airplane drilling was done with an 18v Makita cordless drill. I bought a "tool pack" that included the drill, a flashlight (which I use all the time), and a "hammer drill" which I rarely use. </p>
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<p>For pulling the rivets, I started with a pneumatic riveter, then went to a…</p>
<p>I bought a Craftsman air compressor (about $400) and one of the good Sioux air drills. A good air compressor is very handy to have around for a lot of other stuff as well...</p>
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<p>But most of my airplane drilling was done with an 18v Makita cordless drill. I bought a "tool pack" that included the drill, a flashlight (which I use all the time), and a "hammer drill" which I rarely use. </p>
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<p>For pulling the rivets, I started with a pneumatic riveter, then went to a hydraulic one, but I was not satisfied with the quality of the set rivets using either of those tools. I went back to the hand riveter and never looked back.</p>
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<p>I hand-riveted both wings and the entire fuselage, and then polished my airplane. Very happy with the results.</p>
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<p>- Pat</p> All excellent, intelligent, e…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-17:2606393:Comment:2663672013-02-17T02:49:56.737ZScott Hunterhttps://zenith.aero/profile/ScottHunter
<p>All excellent, intelligent, experienced replies. I finally settled on a Dewalt 3/8" drill ( D21001, believe model #), as I liked the 2450 RPM's, 110, vs. the other chorldess prev. plugged in. Yellow, Home Depot, or perhaps other outlets. If you live -shop in Rapid, Menard's is big on the E. side. BTW, if you haven't picked up a pneumatic, I've a JET, NIB, JSG-0810, quick release air valve for $75.Maverick_4003@yahoo.com. Hangar space limited - tight in your region per interesting where you…</p>
<p>All excellent, intelligent, experienced replies. I finally settled on a Dewalt 3/8" drill ( D21001, believe model #), as I liked the 2450 RPM's, 110, vs. the other chorldess prev. plugged in. Yellow, Home Depot, or perhaps other outlets. If you live -shop in Rapid, Menard's is big on the E. side. BTW, if you haven't picked up a pneumatic, I've a JET, NIB, JSG-0810, quick release air valve for $75.Maverick_4003@yahoo.com. Hangar space limited - tight in your region per interesting where you plan on access when completed.</p> I had no problems using an el…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-16:2606393:Comment:2661412013-02-16T23:34:08.347ZJim B Belcherhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JimBBelcher
<p>I had no problems using an electric drill, although I had both pneumatic and electric available. The one pneumatic tool I would recommend is the riveter. I think you'll find your arm/hand will get pretty tired pulling all those rivets manually.</p>
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<p>i do use a hand riveter in a few areas where I cannot fit the pneumatic unit. I ground a cheapie hand riveter, unit it would fit some pretty awkward places.</p>
<p>I had no problems using an electric drill, although I had both pneumatic and electric available. The one pneumatic tool I would recommend is the riveter. I think you'll find your arm/hand will get pretty tired pulling all those rivets manually.</p>
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<p>i do use a hand riveter in a few areas where I cannot fit the pneumatic unit. I ground a cheapie hand riveter, unit it would fit some pretty awkward places.</p> We'd likely just do the paint…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-16:2606393:Comment:2661332013-02-16T20:38:28.489ZPatrick Ealyhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PatrickEaly
<p>We'd likely just do the painting outside. Living in the Black Hills, we have something of 270+ clear dry days per year. Finding good days for that sort of activity isn't as bad as those living in the Midwest where it rains all the time. This is part of the reason many retire to this region. Another oddity - mosquito's and many other flying pests don't arrive until August with the tourists. A couple years ago it was so dry none appeared all year. We're in a semi-arid climate with about…</p>
<p>We'd likely just do the painting outside. Living in the Black Hills, we have something of 270+ clear dry days per year. Finding good days for that sort of activity isn't as bad as those living in the Midwest where it rains all the time. This is part of the reason many retire to this region. Another oddity - mosquito's and many other flying pests don't arrive until August with the tourists. A couple years ago it was so dry none appeared all year. We're in a semi-arid climate with about 8-12 inches of rain per year. Prickly pear and sage brush make up most folk's landscaping. Go only 100 miles west into Wyoming and the climate turns into full desert.<br/><br/>We can't do anything too drastic to the cabin since we're only renting. Surprisingly my landlord is alright with this project. He's built several aircraft himself over the years. It may be moved to his workshop by the point of painting anyway. He just has too much junk in there for me to work in there at this time.</p> Patrick - That Craftsmen comp…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-16:2606393:Comment:2661942013-02-16T20:20:33.959ZJohn Austinhttps://zenith.aero/profile/JohnLAustin
<p>Patrick - That Craftsmen compressor looks very much like my Walter Mitty "ta-pocketa, ta-pocketa" compressor that I bought <em>decades</em> ago ... and still works! I think it was a lot less expensive, but then again, live dinosaurs were roaming the earth! LOL!</p>
<p>By the way, you better think this through ... if you're going to build the airplane in your living room, where are you going to <em>paint</em> it??? I'd build a shop, first! - maybe enclose that deck???</p>
<p>Patrick - That Craftsmen compressor looks very much like my Walter Mitty "ta-pocketa, ta-pocketa" compressor that I bought <em>decades</em> ago ... and still works! I think it was a lot less expensive, but then again, live dinosaurs were roaming the earth! LOL!</p>
<p>By the way, you better think this through ... if you're going to build the airplane in your living room, where are you going to <em>paint</em> it??? I'd build a shop, first! - maybe enclose that deck???</p> Thanks for the advice everyon…tag:zenith.aero,2013-02-16:2606393:Comment:2662692013-02-16T20:12:49.017ZPatrick Ealyhttps://zenith.aero/profile/PatrickEaly
<p>Thanks for the advice everyone! As I suspected, the oil less air compressors would be a horrible experience it sounds like. The only drawback I've heard about the oil variants is that sometimes the oil can leak into the lines and then painting would become an impossibility. Yes, we are planning to paint the aircraft. My wife is a gifted artist by trait and paleontologist by trade. She'd like to do some sort of dinosaur themed paint scheme:…<br></br><br></br></p>
<p>Thanks for the advice everyone! As I suspected, the oil less air compressors would be a horrible experience it sounds like. The only drawback I've heard about the oil variants is that sometimes the oil can leak into the lines and then painting would become an impossibility. Yes, we are planning to paint the aircraft. My wife is a gifted artist by trait and paleontologist by trade. She'd like to do some sort of dinosaur themed paint scheme:<br/><br/><a href="http://www.taosgifts.co.uk/ekmps/shops/taos/images/dinosaur-polystyrene-glider-plane-making-kit-2722-p.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.taosgifts.co.uk/ekmps/shops/taos/images/dinosaur-polystyrene-glider-plane-making-kit-2722-p.jpg" class="align-full"/></a>I think it would look pretty good on a 650. It'd certainly get some ramp appeal if finished off as well as her other works. Might even be something to show at Oshkosh.<br/><br/>Anyway, that in mind, it would seem we're increasingly moving towards pneumatic options since a paint sprayer can be fixed to one quite easily.<br/><br/>A bit more about our workshop - we don't have one. My wife is supportive enough of the project that she has agreed to allow it to move into the living room. Nothing like riveting while watching your favourite movies and TV shows! We have a large deck just outside the living room where the focus of the work will likely take place in reality. As we found from the rudder workshop, those metal burrs go everywhere and they probably wouldn't be too vacuum friendly. However, given I'm in South Dakota, temperatures don't often agree much with outdoor work this time of the year. We'll certainly be able to put the air compressor outside so we don't go crazy.<br/><br/>We were at Runnings last night and I saw DeWalt's nice lineup of 20V Li drills, however, the wife and I both noticed that those things are incredibly heavy as are most cordless tools. Maybe we just need to beef up our wrists with 7000 hand rivets and it wouldn't matter anymore to us :). They're certainly nice drills, but at their price ~$300, I don't see it as savings vs buying an air tank. I suppose we could just buy a cheapo $40 2000 rpm hardware store drill and make sure we get good bits and then be good.<br/><br/>We looked at a few tanks and a couple caught my eye so far. These seem to be big enough to run the painting equipment, a drill, or even the riveter:<br/><br/><a href="http://www.sears.com/craftsman-professional-25-gallon-horizontal-portable-air-compressor/p-00916475000P?prdNo=20&blockNo=20&blockType=G20" target="_blank">Craftsman Professional Series 25 gallon portable</a><br/><a href="http://www.cpopowertools.com/dewalt-dxcmpa1982054-1-9-hp-20-gallon-oil-lube-horizontal-air-compressor/dewndxcmpa1982054,default,pd.html?start=6&cgid=dewalt-compressors" target="_blank">DeWalt 20 gallon horizontal</a><br/><br/>Both of these tanks are >5 CFM, by good brands (although I tend to be loyal to Craftsman), accept 120 V 20 A outlets (all we have in our cabin), and are oil lubricated. Are these overkill?</p>